Asase Ba Podcast - S1E5: Aunty Madam’s Ghanaian Story
Transcript
[Asase Ba Theme Music]
Michelle: Hello and welcome to Asase Ba, a podcast that honours oral tradition and shines light on Ghanaian culture and stories that are often untold or silenced. I’m your host Michelle and my pronouns are she and her.
So welcome to the final episode of season one! This is episode five. If you haven’t listened to the previous four episodes, go listen to it right now. They’re all really, really interesting conversations with a variety of different Ghanaian folks. They’re telling their stories and it’s really candid, honest, amazing. So yeah, go check out those stories. Go check out those episodes.
Once again, thank you to everyone that has supported the podcast. It really means a lot to me when I read messages about the podcast and how you’re enjoying it, what you like about it, all of that. It means so much to me. I start cheesing so hard when I read those really, really nice comments and messages.
So sharing goes a long way. If you’re enjoying the show, you’re enjoying the podcast and you know someone who’ll like it, tell them. Tell them about it. Spread the word about the podcast. Tell you aunty, your sister, your brother, your cousin, your coworker, your friend, whoever.
If you’re on Instagram, post it on your IG stories and say “hey I’m listening to this really dope podcast called Asase Ba. Check it out.” Or if you’re on Twitter, share the link and say “hey check this out, I’m listening to this right now. Asase Ba is really dope. Go listen to it.”
Just share and subscribe as well, wherever you’re listening to the podcast just so that you can keep up to date on things.
So this is season one finale. This is episode five. So wow. I can’t believe it. I feel like it’s been a long time, but at the same time, it’s not because like five episodes! I don’t know, it’s just so weird and surreal to me. This is the final episode of season one. I will definitely be back for season two but I’m gonna take a break.
So if you wanna keep up to date on when the show returns, subscribe. Subscribe on Apple, subscribe on Spotify, on Google, Castbox, Stitcher, wherever you’re listening to this podcast. Subscribe so you can get notified when a new episode drops, when the new season drops.
When you post about Asase Ba on social media, use the #AsaseBaPod so that I can see your commentary and other people can see it, just to keep that conversation going. So yes, welcome to episode five! Woo! This is a good episode.
In this episode, I interview Aunty Madam who is a dear family, dear aunty to me. And I wanted to interview an elder in the community because we need to hear the stories of our elders. They are such an important part in Ghanaian society, Ghanaian community. They have a lot of wisdom and knowledge and experience. I’m speaking as a youth, as a person who is young. There are a lot of things that we can learn from them, and they can learn some things from us as well. But specifically right now in this episode, I interview an elder and we can learn a lot from our elders. And I think it’s important to have someone like Aunty Madam who is so vivacious, who is so honest and candid and raw.
Aunty Madam has such a vibrant personality and she has a lot of wisdom and experience so I thought it would be so awesome to interview her and also have her as the last episode of season one, just to round out the interviews and also further highlight and emphasize what the mission of this podcast is, which is oral tradition and telling the stories of Ghanaian folks, including our elders.
So I was super, super excited to interview her cause she’s so cool and she just has such a great aura. She has such a vibrant personality and she’s funny. She’s entertaining and she has a lot of wisdom.
And during my interview with Aunty Madam, we discuss her childhood growing up in Kumasi, her dreams of being a newscaster, becoming a teacher in Ghana, her boarding school experiences, immigrating to Canada in 1975, the discrimination she faced as a Black Ghanaian immigrant, her love of fashion, and also she provides wisdom for the youth, and so much more.
We discuss a lot of things and she doesn’t hold back. She’s very honest and candid and raw, much like the other folks I interviewed for season one. With that said, here goes. This is the final episode of season one of Asase Ba, my interview with Aunty Madam.
***
Michelle: Today, I’m here with Aunty Madam. Aunty would you like to introduce yourself to the audience?
Aunty Madam: The name is Madam Adwoa Yeboah popularly known as Madam, the one and only Madam Adwoa Yeboah and I'm Elizabeth Osei Kwabena. I've been Toronto here since 1975 and I'm still here trying to make a living with my family and friends.
Michelle: So Aunty, where were you born and raised?
Aunty Madam: I was born and raised in Ghana West Africa on the 16th of April 1951 and I grew up in Kumasi.
Michelle: And Aunty, tell me about your family, your parents. Who raised you?
Aunty Madam: I come from a family of five siblings. I'm the eldest. My mom was a school principal. My father was a businessman so I grew into a family of five siblings and I was the oldest. So actually I was raised from a very educated family in Kumasi because my parents, my mother especially, being a school principal or school headmistress -- that’s the name we use for them-- was very well educated.
My dad who was a businessman wasn't that much educated like my mom so I come from a family or I came from a family that was very well educated. I will term it as a middle-class family, that's how I was raised. We weren't very rich, neither were we poor like it was a decent family that I was raised into.
Michelle: And what were you like as a child? If any of your siblings were here right now and we can ask them, what are some words that they will use to describe you when you were a kid?
Aunty Madam: I was very talkative. Like the time that I was supposed to crawl or walk, I was sitting on the floor all the time talking, talking.
Instead of me walking or crawling I had the potential of mouthing out. I've been talkative from my childhood. I've been very talkative and then when they asked me for a name that was to be given to me (my parents were discussing a name that was supposed to be given to me), I'm the one at the age of four that chose a name for myself, that I want to be called Elizabeth, to be named after the Queen of England.
So I choose my name, my English name. Not my surname, my surname is Odoru; that is the family name but I chose my Christian name as Elizabeth because I've always felt like a queen and I wanted to be named after the Queen of England, Elizabeth.
Michelle: Okay, so Aunty what’s your Twi name?
Aunty Madam: Adwoa Yeboah. I was named after my stepmother.
Michelle: So Aunty you say you have a stepmother, did your parents break up and then your dad remarried or?
Aunty Madam: No they never did but in Ghana, we don't term stepmothers somebody who your father married after your mom. Anyone that is in the family married to your uncle or your nephew, any member of the family who is married to the family, we termed them as mothers but nowadays we say stepmothers because they were not the one that produced you or bring you forth in the ninth month but we considered them as stepmothers.
They were not the one that carried you for the nine months. So we termed them as stepmother. Anyone that helped you in your growth is considered as a stepmother.
Michelle: So when you're a kid you're this talkative kid, you like to do a bunch of different things. I’m guessing you were very active. What kind of things did you like to do for fun?
Aunty Madam: During my early childhood what I liked was to be a newscaster because we had a small radio, like a media we call it nowadays. It’s called radio, Voice of Africa. And I've always wanted to be talking on the TV or the radio. We did not have a TV at those times so my role model was Koranteng Asante. She was a newscaster. So I told my mom that I want to grow up and be like Vida Koranteng Asante, to be giving out news, to be in the media and guess what my mom told me?
“How can you like to be growing up and be talking on the radio? How many people listen to radio? How many people have radios? They don't because they could not afford it at that time so it's useless that you want to be a media person.”
She forced me to be a school teacher but in my life, all I wanted was to be a newscaster but my mom discouraged me because not many people had that radio box to be listening to people, but that was my idea.
Anytime I hear Vida Koranteng Asante giving Ghana speeches, announcing the media, I was very much interested cause this is how it went. Early in the morning from 7:30 to 8, all you hear is “Ghana montie, Ghana montie. This is radio broadcasting corporation.
“We are here to announce this blah blah” and I admired that lady so much but my mom discouraged me because not many people had the radio box at that time when I was growing up. So I was discouraged from being a media person.
Michelle: Ok so Aunty, how did you feel when you were discouraged? Like this is your passion. When you see —
Aunty Madam: — Vida Koranteng Asante was her name. That was my mentor.
Michelle: And you see her broadcasting and this is very inspiring to you but your mom is saying that that's not something you can do. How did that make you feel?
Aunty Madam: Well I had to listen to my mom. She was my mom so I had to listen to her and take her advice even though I did not agree with her. I kind of agreed with her that not many people had the radio box to be listening to the news, especially in the villages so I kind of backed off from being a media person.
Michelle: So I wanna get into school. When you were a kid, what kind of school did you go to? How were you like at school? Did you enjoy school?
Aunty Madam: Yeah. I started my education from my primary school and at the age of 14, I went to a boarding school which was an all-girls boarding school. It was called Mmofraturo boarding school, where you meet all kinds of people, different tribes, so I wasn't staying at home.
I grew up outside my home in a boarding school where we were kept safe with different teachers teaching us not to be around our own homes to learn bad habits. So it's like we were being monitored in a boarding school.
We termed it as a boarding school where you don't grow up with other kids in our neighbourhood. So I was isolated to be in a school where we pay fees, we have our own beds, we have our own dormitories. We have our dining areas where we were fed three times a day. And we pay for it. So I grew up in a very educated family.
We term it as a boarding school. You don't go home you stay there all your life until there is vacation then you are allowed maybe a month, six weeks to see your parents, interact with them, then you come back to the boarding school. So actually you've been separated from your family to be with other family to be educated. That's what we term it as “boarding school.”
Michelle: What city was it is in?
Aunty Madam: It's in Kumasi.
Michelle: So while you were attending that school, that was in the 60s right?
Aunty Madam: Yes, early 60s yes.
Michelle: And you know like in Ghana, in 1960, Kwame Nkrumah became president and there was a lot of change happening in Ghana so at that time what was it like for you? Like the first Ghanaian president, what did that mean to you at that time when you were 14, 15 going to boarding school?
Aunty Madam: He was a wonderful person but I didn't understand what he was doing for Ghana at that time of my age because I was only 12 years, 13 to 14 years right. So I wasn't much into politics, all I knew is we had a president with the name Osagyefo Kwame Nkrumah.
Even in schools, our national anthems, his name had to be concluded. When we are giving the pledge every morning, swearing an oath, I would say like pledging, like to sing the anthem, —we call it national anthem—to boost us up.
“This is Ghana. This Ghana, our beautiful Ghana. There's love everywhere in Ghana.”
It’s something like encouraging us to know that we are from Ghana, we have to work together, we have to respect our elders, and build up the nation of Ghana.
That was what we called the national anthem of Ghana. Every morning at school from 7:00 in the morning after breakfast, we have to sing this national anthem. It was like a pledge.
Michelle: While you were in boarding school, what did you like to do for fun in boarding school? What was the social scene there?
Aunty Madam: We were trained to such a way that we get together. They teach us all the things that was going on in Ghana at that time. We had special uniforms that we wear to churches.
When a president, that was Kwame Nkrumah at that time, was showing up any place in the public, we have to hold the Ghana flag. Wave it to him, like receive him with respect that he was the leader of our nation at that time.
So we were trained to go on march pass and our parents or the family or the schoolteachers they formed something that is called The Young Pioneers.
The Young Pioneers to my understanding these days, is the future people or the future representatives to replace our forefathers. So we were trained to act in case they are not around anymore. So we called it Ghana pioneers, like beginners.
Michelle: So you’re in school, you’re a teenager, maybe making friends. How was that like? Did you have any solid friendships or anything or any relationships while you were in school?
Aunty Madam: We were all like family, it doesn't matter where the person is from. We all grew up together, we shared ideas. We had different types of people, like different tribes.
Anybody who could afford to bring their children to the school and pay for their fees, we don't discriminate and say “this one is an Ewe, this one is a Ga, this is an Ashanti.” So long as your parents can afford to keep you inside the school to be trained in a decent way, not to go to a public school, we did not discriminate.
So we all mixed up together and we called ourselves family of a boarding, decent school which was Mmofraturo Girls at that time.
Michelle: Was that your first time being exposed to different tribes?
Aunty Madam: Yes.
Michelle: Did you learn anything about other tribes while you were there?
Aunty Madam: Yes, I did. I realized that different tribes act differently. They all have their ideas of how they act but they did not separate us from any tribe. We all learn from each other. We were learning from each other, we interacted to be together.
Michelle: That's good. So you're learning, you're exposed to different cultures and learning about each other.
Aunty Madam: Exactly, yeah.
Michelle: Is there anyone that you remember like from boarding school who you're still friends with to this day?
Aunty Madam: A whole lot of them because what happened is after two years of schooling in the boarding school, we sit for Common Entrance. The Common Entrance is how we get to the level of going to secondary school.
So we sit for an exam and they choose maybe four schools and God being so good, it happened that majority of the youth that was in the boarding school happened to be in the same secondary school after the elementary school at Mmofraturo.
So we kept in touch and the secondary school is for five years. So from the two years of the boarding elementary, most of us happened to be in the secondary school like continuing education.
Michelle: Were there any activities that you guys were doing? Were they strict there? Did they enforce a lot of rules?
Aunty Madam: Oh they did. Unfortunately, the school that I went to (that was in the capital of Ghana which was Accra), people termed it as a school with bad girls because there were a lot of ministers’ kids there.
There were lots of rich kids over there so we always wanted our freedom. Freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom. No matter how strict the teachers were, we could care less because it’s our parents' money that was helping us out with our education so somehow we were very stubborn kids at that time.
Michelle: Did you say Accra? Is this another school that you went to?
Aunty Madam: Yes it’s a very popular school. It's called Accra Girls secondary school. It’s next to Achimota secondary school.
Michelle: Okay so what age were you when you left Mmofraturo and went to the Accra Girls?
Aunty Madam: 16.
Michelle: What are the things that you did to kind of break the rules and do your own thing as a young adult there?
Aunty Madam: You know what? We were supposed to be on “exeat” we call it. The exeat means getting out of the school compound to be outside. You have to get permission and if you don't get permission and you go outside…
We used to climb fence. I don't know what they call it nowadays. Like they built a fence that we jumped over. Somehow we have to sneak because when you go and ask permission to go outside the school compound, you are not allowed.
We were allowed so many times within the three months of the boarding restrictions. When you go and ask for “exeat” —exeat means going out of the compound to do your own thing.
Because they've been assigned to take care of you or to protect you from outside world, we were not allowed so we have to sneak out and go and do our own thing outside and when you're caught, you are punished.
Michelle: So what kind of things did you do when you snuck out?
Aunty Madam: We go to student nightclubs. At that age, we were not even supposed to go there. Late in the night.
So you know what we did? At boarding school, we have our beds so you pretend. You put a dolly on the bed, you cover it up as if it’s you lying down. So when the teachers come for inspection to make sure that you are in your bed, you are not the person there.
Meanwhile you’ve laid down a dolly with sheets covered thinking that you are there but meanwhile, you are outside the school compound mixing up with whoever we wanted to mix up with at that time.
We had to sneak out of the compound because if you’re caught, that's a big problem for you so we have to lay our pillows, make it like a dolly or human beings, and then we sneak out of the compound to go and meet whoever we wanted to meet at that time. 16 years old.
Michelle: 16? Who are you meeting?
Aunty Madam: Ah well you know some of the bad boys too who were in other schools for dating and stuff like that. Like nowadays we say “Facebook friends.” You have to start from somewhere.
Michelle: In the nightclub what kind of music were they playing? What was popular at the time?
Aunty Madam: Twist! It's called The Twist, it's a special dance. They still do it these days. We called the cha cha cha and rock and roll. Some late dance that we used to do at the club at that time. So we just go, we listen to live bands. There was no CD, media something to play music right so we did have live bands.
There was no telephone at that time, there was no microphone, like no Internet and stuff like that so we listened to live bands. We danced to twist, cha cha cha and rock and roll.
Michelle: Nice, that sounds like fun.
Aunty Madam: Chubby Checker. [sings] Ouuu let’s twist again.
Michelle: Oh! I actually know that song!
Aunty Madam: We had fun, I’m telling you.
Michelle: Were there any local Ghanaian music that you guys listened to?
Aunty Madam: No that time. Our parents used to listen to that. We call it “ archaic.” Archaic means expired. It means it's not a trend. Hardly did anyone listen to those old highlife music.
Michelle: Okay so at the time there wasn't any like popular Ghanaian musicians?
Aunty Madam: Nah.
Michelle: So it sounds like there was a lot of American influence in the music and in the dance.
Aunty Madam: Oh yes! Chubby Checker. We used to listen to that.
Michelle: So what was your view of America then because you had so much of the American influence in your media and your music and all of that. What did you think of America at the time, what was your vision of it?
Aunty Madam: I thought America was the end of the world. We looked at them as the greatest. We looked at them as like the world because everything America, America, America so that's how we listened to their music and their influence and their dancing. Everything was America. We looked at them like they were our leaders at that time.
Michelle: So you were in that school, Accra Girls until what age?
Aunty Madam: I can't remember the age but I graduated the date of 1969.
Michelle: So what was it like to finish high school for you? How did you feel?
Aunty Madam: Well the high school because of my lifestyle, I didn't do that much great when I was in high school. I was too much into company influence so I decided to go to teachers training because my mom was a school principal. So I made admission to a training college to be trained as a school teacher. That was my choice to be a school teacher.
Michelle: And at that time did you still have lingering dreams about being a broadcaster?
Aunty Madam: Yes I have always had a dream of being a newscaster but it looks like I was forced into going to the training college. If my mom had allowed me to do the media work, I could have been somewhere better than how I went to the training college.
It looked like I was forced into what I did not want to do. Because to be honest with you, I never liked being a teacher. I’ve always liked the media work but I wasn't given the chance.
You have to listen to your parents. “I want you to be a school teacher. You have to be a school teacher.” Because my mom was a school principal or a school headmistress and she wanted all her kids...out of the family of five, four of us went to teachers training college.
We were all forced into it which I never liked but it looks like you have to listen to your parents at that time.
Michelle: Did your father also feel like you should go to teacher’s training?
Aunty Madam: No. My father was so free with us that he could care less. It’s my mom that forced us. Four out of five of us went to teachers training because she wanted us to follow her footsteps.
Michelle: So once you finished teacher's training you taught for a year. How was it like being a teacher, especially since it wasn't what your passion was right? So how did it feel to go into something that was not necessarily your passion?
Aunty Madam: I had no choice because I was advised to do the best that I could to help other kids and it looked like after the schooling, after my teacher’s training, most of the students liked me because they see me as a young teacher who could inspire them.
So the love that the student showed me, I adjusted myself to being a school teacher which I only taught for about a year and then I was sponsored back here in Toronto.
Michelle: So what age group were you teaching?
Aunty Madam: The age of 20-21.
Michelle: How old were the kids that you were teaching?
Aunty Madam: 9-11.
Michelle: So you did that for a year and you said you were sponsored. What made you decide to move to Canada?
Aunty Madam: What made me decide to come to Canada was my childhood friend or boyfriend was here and I wanted to make a better life for myself and then get closer to the American people to learn something to better out my life. That's why I left the teaching field. Because they didn't pay that much anyways so I thought I could get a better life by coming to Toronto here.
Michelle: How did your family feel when they heard that you were going to Canada?
Aunty Madam: They were happy. They were very, very happy because me coming to Canada could help them also, to follow my footsteps or to give them the opportunity to join me in the future. They felt it’s a good opportunity. Once their big sister gets here, they will follow up too by coming here to seek for a better future.
Michelle: When did you arrive in Canada?
Aunty Madam: Sometime in 1975.
Michelle: When you stepped off the plane, you know, was this your first time outside of Ghana?
Aunty Madam: Yes.
Michelle: And you came to Canada what were your initial thoughts when you stepped out of the plane and saw all of these mrofo fuo?
Aunty Madam: Woah. I was in heaven. Woo look at the buildings, look at the cars, look at all the people. I would say “white people” but look at the different type of people that I saw at the airport. Look at the announcement.
And that was my first time in the plane. My experience in the plane was very scary but somehow I got here and woo here am I in another world, beautiful world.
Michelle: Yeah so you came in 1975 and at that time, were there a lot of Ghanaians here or what would you say the amount of Ghanaians was? Was there a lot?
Aunty Madam: No there wasn't a lot. There wasn’t many people from Ghana here. Most of them were in Europe.
Michelle: You said you had a boyfriend that sponsored you? Was he the only person you knew in Canada or were there other people?
Aunty Madam: He was the only person I knew until I got introduced to other people after a while.
Michelle: It must have been lonely sometimes. Did you feel it was lonely, not having that many Ghanaian people here, especially coming from Ghana?
Aunty Madam: It wasn't lonely at all, the reason being that he had friends. He was here before me so he had friends that he introduced me to and some of them knew my mom so we kind of got together as a family and it was fun.
Michelle: Okay, that's good. So in the 70s, I imagine there weren't that many Black people in general in Canada. So what was it like being a Ghanaian immigrant, a Black woman living here in the 70s?
Aunty Madam: It was kind of hard because at that time we were not given the opportunities that they had. I thought me coming to Canada here with the educational background that I had, as soon as I enter Canada, I tell them I was a school teacher I went to training college, I went to secondary school, I could have walked into an office or to a school to be a school teacher. But at that time in the early 70s, not much chance was given to Black immigrants. No.
They always requested for another exam before they introduce you to the system. It wasn't that easy. No, we were not allowed.
Michelle: What did you do to sustain yourself while you were here since you weren’t allowed to be a teacher like you were in Ghana? What did you do to make money and have a life here?
Aunty Madam: I worked low paying jobs to make ends meet. I had to work in factories. I had to be a dishwasher, something below my level of education. Cause I had no choice. My husband was a student at the time at York University and I had to support him by doing dishwashing jobs, by working at McDonald's, anything that could get me money.
And people were telling me “how come you were a school teacher back home in Africa and now you are here doing dishwashing?” That’s the time I explained to them that the accent alone... “pardon me, pardon me.”
It did not allow me or give me the privilege to be a school teacher at that time because I had an accent which I still do up to date because I didn’t grow up here. So the accent was a barrier for me being a school teacher.
Michelle: When you arrived here, you mentioned your husband. So you formed your family in Canada?
Aunty Madam: Yes, I did.
Michelle: Do you wanna talk about your family?
Aunty Madam: Yeah, I have a wonderful family. I have my sisters and my brothers here. I brought them here. They were all sponsored here into Canada. At that time it was very simple and easy to bring your family member here so they all joined me here.
And thank God everyone is doing fine. That’s how I got my family here. They also got their children here so we formed our own family here. Through me. I had to get the opportunity to be here then give them the chance or the opportunity also to join me. So our family keeps growing.
So we are here. Five of us and everyone is doing great.
Michelle: So when you were here in the 70s and talking more about the Ghanaian community, you said your partner had friends already here and that’s how you met other people? But were there any other organized groups or maybe community groups that allowed you or made it easier for you to connect with Ghanaian folks?
Aunty Madam: To me, at that time it was like a competition. There was not much help coming from the community. It looked like we all came here for a purpose: to be successful or to make it to the top. It’s not like now.
Now it looks like we are helping each other but before when we came, it was like a competition. It was. If I had gotten advice at that time when I came...there were certain things that I was doing. If I was advised by some friends or some family, I could’ve been a better person now.
But there wasn’t much interaction like these days, no. It looks like we were in a competition. Everybody wants to be somebody because we all had the chance to come here to make a living to impress our family back home and stuff like that. So I don’t trust the 70s.
Michelle: How long were you here until your family joined you?
Aunty Madam: Just about five years.
Michelle: And within that five years, was it hard? Cause you come from a pretty big family. Was it hard not having your family here with you? How did you feel about them not being here?
Aunty Madam: It wasn’t hard because I met other people that I became friends with so it was okay.
Michelle: I guess we can talk about now, the present day. So the reason why I wanted to interview you is that you’re such a figure in the community and you’re like an aunty to my mom and she always says how generous and kind you are.
And Aunty, you’re like a fashionista. At these events, I always notice your fashion. So you’re seen as this free-spirited woman.
Aunty Madam: Oh my god, don’t make me cry. I wish I could do more. The moment she told me you were coming to do some interview with me, I was so excited.
It makes me feel important. It makes me feel that I can be useful. Since yesterday, I've had three people that had approached me about their engagement, their African marriage. They came to me for advice and it makes me feel good about myself that I’m loved, I’m respected and people appreciate me.
That's all I want. I'm not after anything. All I want is unity, like family bond. It makes me more happy than even eating or getting rich. All I care about is my family, not only the family that I sponsored here but anybody who appreciates me for whatever I am and comes to me that “this is our big sister.” It makes me more happy than being rich.
Michelle: Aww that's really good to hear. It’'s a pleasure interviewing you because I hear so much about you, like good things and all that so I was like “yeah I got to interview Aunty Madam.” I was so happy when you agreed to be interviewed.
Aunty Madam: Thank you, I appreciate it so much. I feel honoured. I'm very happy, thank you so much.
Michelle: I had some more questions because I feel like there's a gap because we talked about when you arrived here in the 70s and we transitioned to now, but how did your experience in Canada change in the 80s then in the 90s and then now? Can you talk a little bit about that?
Aunty Madam: The 80s, the 90s and now?
Michelle: Yeah. in the 80s a lot of Ghanaians immigrated to Canada so there was an influx of Ghanaian folks here. What was your experience like because I know in the 70s, there weren't that many Ghanaian people here. So what was it like when you started seeing more people immigrating?
Aunty Madam: Yeah I was kind of happy because I did have the chance to see some of our schoolmates, some old friends that I knew back home. They all came so I was happy to see them. We had more people coming into Canada here, yeah at that time in the 80s.
Michelle: What was everyone doing for fun? What was the social scene like at that time for you?
Aunty Madam: We used to party a lot. There wasn’t much funerals but these days all you hear is “funeral, funeral, funeral.” At that time, there wasn't even outdoorings. We call it outdoorings, like people have kids.
It wasn't like that. It was like parties, get togethers. That's what we call them, nothing like funerals or birthday parties or stuff like that, no. We used to get together, barbeque and stuff like that.
Michelle: You were saying that you were working a bunch of different jobs because they were barring you from pursuing a teaching career. So did that change or were you working those jobs? You said you were working as a dishwasher and working at McDonald’s. What were you doing in the 80s?
Aunty Madam: In the 80s, I decided to go to school so that I could get into the Canadian system of being a school teacher or a better job than the dishwashing that I was doing. So I went to Toronto School of Business to be a hotel and restaurant manager.
In the school, it was 35 students, only five Blacks. They were all—I'm not racist but they were all “Canadians” I should put it. So the dark skin people, that was five of us that went to the school Toronto School of Business, to work in an industry where we will be noticed or where we will get better jobs with our educational background.
We all finished Toronto School of Business. I was the student of the month in restaurants at that time in the 80s but guess what? Out of the five dark skinned people that went to Toronto School of Business, none of us was allowed to work in the public area.
I will say either it was racism or prejudice. I don't know. For some reason, none of us got into the industry. We were never given the chance. I went to Toronto School of Business, yes I was student of the month in restaurants.
I was very good, I was very brilliant. Some of the Canadians that were in the school, they had the “good” accent to express themselves. I had an accent but I could write better than them but because of my skin, at that time, I don't know. I was not given the chance or the opportunity to work at the front desk.
None of us got into that field. That's how I ended up ignoring the hotel and restaurant management, which’s being my pride always to meet the media, to meet big shows, to meet the celebrities coming from the States. We were never given the chance at that time, so I ended up working in a plant.
Michelle: That must have been very painful.
Aunty Madam: Very. Up to date. Because my daughter asked me one question at one time. She goes “mom, I heard you used to be a school teacher. I heard you have grade 13. How come you are working in a factory?”
So I explained to her that I was never given the chance to work with the public or the media or anything like that. We were not given the chance and it looks like I wasn't the only person that was not given the chance to work with the media.
We were never given the opportunity. I even knew some Ghanaian doctors back home that came in the early 80s. They had to start from the lab. Up to date, if you immigrate from Ghana as a specialist, a surgeon and you enter Toronto, Canada, there's no way they're going to put you at the Toronto hospital or Saint Margaret hospital to work as a full qualified doctor, no.
You have to get from somewhere, you have to start from somewhere. We’re always underneath. I can mention names of Ghanaian doctors that I knew back home when I was in school that I worked in the same factory with them.
Michelle: Yeah that is hard, difficult and painful too. I mean you must have also felt angry, I know I would. Did you feel like you had people to talk to about this? Did you feel that you had a way of expressing all that anger and pain and all of that from all the years of discrimination and racism?
Aunty Madam: Actually I gave up and accepted for the fact that I had an accent. I accepted for the fact that when you speak sometimes people say “pardon me.” So I used to be mad and I get a pen or paper and I write it down because I can express myself on paper more than the accent.
So I accepted for the fact that I did have an accent, that's why I wasn't given the chance because you can’t put me as a lawyer or as a school teacher, put me in the high school to continue my education and be talking to my students in an accent where they would not understand. So I accepted it, that English was our second language, that if I wanted to go ahead, it is better to start from the beginning and get the accent, that way you can be okay.
So I accepted that and to me anyhow you make money is what matters. All I cared about is making money for my living. I could care less about whatever office or field that I had to work.
Michelle: How long were you working in the plant?
Aunty Madam: 18 years.
Michelle: At that point did you stop trying to get those credentials that you're telling you to get in order to advance? Because you mentioned you accepted it?
Aunty Madam: Yeah I gave up. I never tried anything again.
Michelle: You mentioned that you wrote because you liked expressing yourself and you did that through writing. So that was your outlet, that's how you expressed yourself. Do you still do that to this day?
Aunty Madam: No.
Michelle: What did writing do for you at that time when you were feeling all of those feelings?
Aunty Madam: I felt kind of relieved. I felt like okay, this is two choices: either you speak or you write. And then the writing could forward my expression and my anger or my concerns to other factors. It helped me because I was able to express myself in another field. It helped me to feel good about myself, that if I have the accent, at least I can write. No spelling mistakes. So it helped me by expressing myself on the papers.
Michelle: What were you doing after you finished working at the plant? You said that you did it for about 18 years. What were you doing after?
Aunty Madam: Well unfortunately I had an accident. I had an accident two years ago. I was hit by a forklift on my job and I've already reached the age of retirement so at this time, I’ll say I'm on retirement.
Michelle: As you should be.
Aunty Madam: I’m on retirement now. I feel like working. I feel strong enough that I say “hey I can do something better to make more money with myself” but unfortunately the age caught up on me so I'll consider myself as a retiree.
Michelle: Yeah I know, Aunty wabrɛ.
Aunty Madam: Mabrɛ. Mabrɛ.
Michelle: So Aunty, what does retirement look for you right now, like what are you doing these days or how are you relaxing and enjoying your retirement?
Aunty Madam: Anything that happens to me, all I want now is to enjoy the little life that I have left, which I don’t know. I have suffered too much. I need to relax and enjoy the later part of my life now.
Michelle: And I see you enjoying yourself during some of the Ghanaian events. You’re a fashionista, you come in your outfits Aunty. I see you're always looking good. Is fashion something that you really like?
Aunty Madam: I love fashion. Even when I was in school, I used to go to used clothing stores and buy used clothing because I always want to have something new on, something different on. Up to date, I like fashion. I really do.
Michelle: That's good because you always have these nice looks. I’m like “oh Aunty can I borrow? I think we're the same size.”
Aunty Madam: Anytime baby, anytime. I told your mom once that I have some kente. I have a lot! I have about eight of them that's not been touched.
Michelle: Oh wow!
Aunty Madam: I love kente. I have about fifty of them because when you reach certain age right, there are certain clothes that you cannot put on. You have to wear the traditional something, to a level. I used to wear short skirts, miniskirts but now I can't do them anymore because my daughter sees me in some dress and she goes “eww.” You know cause there are certain clothes that you cannot wear at a certain age. You have to respect yourself. I don't like to expose myself.
Michelle: Aunty, I’m definitely down to look into your collection and borrow something.
Aunty Madam: Anytime, anytime. I'm glad you showed up here and I'll be happy to see you every now and then. Anytime! I would love for you to come, we can go into the closet and see what we can do.
Michelle: I will take you up on that offer Aunty.
Aunty Madam: Anytime! I'm not joking with you, you know.
Michelle: I just have one question to round out this interview: so what words of wisdom, given all your experience, what words of wisdom do you give to Ghanaian women today?
Aunty Madam: With my people from Ghana what I will say is it's not the end of the world and all fingers are not equal so don't ever feel like you are behind or “I'm from Ghana” or “this I cannot do.”
We still have time to improve ourselves. Let's be together, unite, and work things for each other. Elderly people can take advice from the youth. The youth can take advice from us. What I’ve realized is my children or my grandchildren, they show more love and concern than us, the elderly people or the people that were here earlier.
So I always want to be around the youth and I feel more comfortable being around the youth of nowadays because it looks like we are in competition. No, we have to support our children, we have to teach them the wrong things we did in the past.
Like me, I'm not embarrassed to teach them the wrong things I did in the past. If I had been smarter or listened to elderly people or people that are good in the community, I would have been in a better position. So nobody is permanent now.
Let's all get together. learn from each other, correct ourselves and build a future world or generation by teaching our children the mistakes we did in the past and what they have to do not to be in the past mistake that I made.
Don't force them to be what they don't want to be. Because I wanted to work in the media. My mom did not allow me. If she had allowed me, probably would have been in the Hollywood.
My daughter finished university and the father did not want her to be a wedding decorator because he's thinking that “oh she finished York University so she should be working in the bank, she should be this, she should be that.”
So we were upset at “how could you finish university and be working as a wedding planner?” But she's making more money than working in the bank. So let's allow our children to be free, make their choices even in marriage, in relationship, anything they want to do, let's allow them to be free so that they don't repeat the mistakes that we did in the past.
Michelle: Those are really great words of wisdom, thank you so much.
Aunty Madam: Thank you.
***
Michelle: Thank you so much for listening to the final episode of season one of Asase Ba. Wasn’t this such a great interview? I love Aunty Madam, she’s so cool.
I will be taking a break before launching season two as I said at the start of the show, because wow. Kudos to those folks who produce a podcast and host and edit and do everything every week because it’s a lot of labour.
So I’m practicing what I preach and taking a break so that I can just relax. When you take a break, that’s when your mind gets rejuvenated and you come up with new, fresh ideas and content and stuff. So that’s what I’m doing. I’m gonna be taking a couple months’ break.
I’m not exactly sure when I’ll be back but I’ll definitely be back for season two and I’ll be back soon so stay tuned. Subscribe to the podcast so you can know when season two drops and follow @AsaseBaPod on Twitter to keep up to date on things. I’ll still be active on the Twitter page, tweeting things and all that jazz. Maybe not every single day but you know, just to keep things going.
So yeah, I will return. I hope everyone enjoyed season one of Asase Ba. If you have any comments or feedback or anything like that, you can email asasebapod@gmail.com. Or #AsaseBaPod on Twitter, on Instagram, on social media just so that I can see and so other people can see it as well.
And yes! Season one, Asase Ba. I’ve learned so much being a podcaster. So these are five interviews, five episodes and even though there aren’t a lot of episodes, there was a lot of thought and production and thinking that went behind me producing this podcast and producing season one.
Even during this short time that I’ve been doing this podcast, season one, once again, oral tradition is so important. Documenting our stories, listening to different experiences, or even hearing people echo back things that you feel that you didn’t really think existed but it is there because people are talking about their stories, it’s just so important.
A lot of these interviews, even though I was acting as a host, it really resonated with me and it was really important for me to hear a lot of the things that the different folks I interviewed were talking about. I really hope that this resonated with you as well, whoever is listening. And if it did, again, share with people. It’s so important to highlight the stories of marginalized folks and people who are often silenced or told that they’re not Ghanaian enough or Ghanaian because of their identity which is all BS, clearly.
So it’s just been really good for me to really emphasize and illuminate the stories of people in the margins and to let folks know that they’re not alone, that we’re not alone.
That’s my little spiel to round out this season. Thank you so much to everyone once again, who have supported the podcast and amplified it on Twitter or shared it on Instagram or shared it with their friends or told people about it. I really, really appreciate that. And I will see you very soon. Stay tuned for season two. This is Michelle speaking, your host, producer, creator, editor of Asase Ba. And see you for season two! Stay tuned.
[Asase Ba Theme Music]
Episode Notes
In the Season 1 finale of Asase Ba, Aunty Madam joins Michelle to discuss her childhood growing up in Kumasi, her dreams of being a newscaster, becoming a teacher in Ghana, boarding school experiences, immigrating to Canada in 1975, discrimination she faced as an immigrant, her love of fashion, words of wisdom for the youth, and much more.
Asase Ba will return soon, follow the podcast on Twitter and subscribe to keep updated on when the show returns.
Join in on the conversation! Use the hashtag #AsaseBaPod.
SUPPORT
E-transfer or via PayPal to asasebapod@gmail.com. Thank you so much for your support.
SOCIAL MEDIA
Twitter: https://twitter.com/AsaseBaPod
GUEST
Aunty Madam was born and raised in Ghana. She has been in Toronto since 1975 and is still here, trying to make a living with her family and friends.
HOST
This podcast is produced, edited and hosted by Ghanaian Canadian Michelle (pronouns: she/her). She is also the creator of the theme music.
#ghanaian #ghana #podcast #african #africa #culture #ghanaianpodcast #africanpodcast #oraltradition #elder #women